- How much will it cost?
- What parts will we need to buy?
- How many hours are typical?
- My vehicle only has a little rust. How much will that cost?
- Do I need to repair rust I can’t see?
- What can I expect for reliability when I get my vehicle back?
- How should I store my vehicle?
- How long will the work take (work hours/months in the shop)?
- Can we restore the vehicle in stages?
- Can we assist the customer in a restoration?
- Can I visit my vehicle or be part of the restoration process?
- Can I finance the restoration?
- How are payments made?
- Will you store my vehicle for me if I can’t afford to finish my project?
- Will I get reports on progress?
- Will your employees be the only people touching my vehicle?
- If I bought a car really cheap, then it should be cheap to restore, right?
- I’ve found body shops at $44/hour, how can FantomWorks claim $75.00 per hour is affordable?
- What happens to the parts removed or replaced from my vehicle?
- What protection do I have that all of my original parts will be returned on my vehicle?
- Will you come out and examine my vehicle before I bring it in?
- Can you pick up my vehicle (it is in parts and towing companies will not do it)?
- Can you give me a fixed price quote?
- How much does it cost to fix my electrical problems or rewire my vehicle?
- How much does it cost to do an engine swap?
1. How much will it cost?
The easiest answer – which is a completely honest response is the cost will be whatever parts and materials we collectively agree upon plus $75.00 per hour until we have achieved the results you want. In some cases the hourly rate may be less depending upon the technical nature of the work and the number of overall hours. As a rule, the bigger the job and the less technical, the lower the hourly rate. So, the next question is always “how many parts will we need and how many hours of work will it take?”
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2. What parts will we need to buy?
Believe it or not, that is mostly up to you the customer. If you want to re-use parts in their present condition and they are in less than show condition; then you can lower the price of parts but you should also understand that parts typically represent about 25% of the total cost of the restoration. If you want every piece to appear “show or new” then we will rework, repair, and rebuild every part to that condition. One thing to consider is that when you get your car back with show quality paint, slightly dull or pitted chrome that today may look OK against old faded paint will look considerably different when attached to perfectly aligned and painted panels on your “new” classic. The same holds true for interiors.
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3. How many hours are typical?
As for hours, we will have a very rough idea at the start of the restoration and will go over our estimate with you after examining your vehicle; however what we can never fully predict, even after a thorough initial examination, is the extent of rust, damage, state of the parts under the panels, paint, and fillers. We have had a number of vehicles that the owners stated were “completely rust free vehicles” and so far, only one of those vehicles has been stripped down to find that there was actually no rust. In a few cases, vehicles were significantly rusted even to the point of being dangerous to drive and yet the owners had no previous knowledge of the true state of their vehicle. Typically, upon examination after stripping the vehicle down to clean metal, owners ask us to rebuild every damaged part of the metal structure on their vehicles. So far, we have found that 200-1200 hours are generally required to rework a vehicle; with 200 to 500 being a cosmetic makeover and 900 to 1200 being a complete restoration. A trip to the rotisserie to completely finish the bottom of the vehicle in “mirror on the ground” adds about 25% to the effort.
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4. My vehicle only has a little rust. How much will that cost?
Unfortunately, rust repair is difficult to estimate; especially if the vehicle has been painted within the previous ten years. Paints and fillers can hide a tremendous amount of corrosion and we won’t be able to adequately ascertain the amount of damage until after we’ve removed everything covering the metal through soda blasting. Rust is insidious in nature and tends to attack panels from the inside out so by time you see the damage, there is considerably more you don’t see.
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5. Do I need to repair rust I can’t see?
We believe the correct philosophy is almost always yes, and here’s why. The metal on the bottom of the car is somewhat like the floor joists on a house. If termites ate much of the floor joists but you could only see the walls sagging “a little”, would you really care about the floors? Knowing how the sub-floor structure of the house affects its integrity, you would probably answer yes. The floors of your car act just like the floors of your home in forming the structure that supports everything above them. You may not see the affects of corrosion or even be aware of it, but it almost always worsens causing greater damage in the long run. We recently restored a 50+ year old vehicle with a support structure corroded to the point the doors were getting difficult to close. The frame was “settling” and mis-aligning the doors. Not only was this causing cosmetic and functional problems with the car, but also the fundamental structure was becoming dangerous.
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6. What can I expect for reliability when I get my vehicle back?
It is reasonable to expect reliability similar to that of what the original parts would have provided when the vehicle was first produced. In some cases you will see slightly higher reliability and in some cases lower. Higher reliability can be found in the performance of paints, fillers, and protective coatings produced today; therefore it is likely that the paint will outlast what the OEM put on the vehicle. On the other hand, some reproduction parts today are not made as well as the OEM parts were and will not yield the same reliability as was originally provided. When you get a vehicle back after a complete restoration, it should be garaged and cared for differently than a modern vehicle. Although you can use a restored driver as a “daily driver” it is generally prudent to consider a restored vehicle as a “Fair Weather Driver.” Your restored vehicle can be driven daily including in the rain, ice, dirt, and extreme weather; however, those conditions will adversely affect the appearance, longevity, and reliability of your newly restored classic.
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7. How should I store my vehicle?
Your vehicle should be stored in a standard garage. If you plan on storing it from three to six months, the fuel tank should be full to avoid condensation in the empty air space in the fuel tank. Additionally, the battery should be left on a battery tender to keep it fully charged (which we can install for you on both 6 and 12 volt positive and negative ground vehicles). If you are planning on storing your vehicle for periods longer than six months, please contact us with your vehicle type and intended length of storage and facility conditions so we can discuss specific requirements.
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8. How long will the work take (work hours/months in the shop)?
We generally complete frame-off rotisserie restorations in about six to eight months. This can be completed faster if there is a valid reason (and it is funded accordingly) or may take longer if the restoration involves extremely hard to find parts or has significant corrosion. One of the most significant differences between many of our competitor’s shops and ours is the progress you will see. If you visit our shop to see your vehicle every two weeks you will see significant progress every time you visit. The only time a vehicle spends more than a day or two idle is if we are awaiting parts. You will be nothing less than amazed at our rate of high-quality progress.
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9. Can we restore the vehicle in stages?
Yes, we will work with our customers in any reasonable fashion to complete the restoration per their requirements. Whether you wish to complete some of the phases or you want to stagger the restoration for budgetary reasons, we can accommodate your requirements and as a rule work with you. Exceptions to this rule include paint work. We cannot paint a vehicle over body work we did not do. We warrant our paint work but if body work is done outside of our shop, we cannot control what impurities were introduced between the metal and the paint and therefore we will not agree to paint over “outside” body work.
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10. Can we assist the customer in a restoration?
Although we can not generally allow you to work in our facility, we can complete phases or parts of phases and return your vehicle to you to carry on the effort and then continue to work on it per your requirements.
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11. Can I visit my vehicle or be part of the restoration process?
Yes, we encourage our customers to make about 2 visits a month to review the vehicle’s progress. You can visit more often or less often as you wish but remember that too frequent visits can slow the progress of your effort and too infrequent visits may result in us not fully understanding your requirements.
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12. Financing
We do not offer in-house financing of the restoration. We generally begin with a down payment and work progress payments as we make significant progress. If you have specific concerns, we can discuss them and come up with an agreeable solution.
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13. How are payments made?
We will send you reports of progress made. We generally require about 25% down and payments are made based upon the length of time required to complete the project.
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14. Will you store my vehicle for me if I can’t afford to finish my project?
If deployments, cash flow, or other life events prohibit you from continuing your project as originally agreed, we ask that you provide us as much advance notice as possible and we will work with you in every way possible to make reasonable adjustments to the project. If the delay in continuing the project is going to be significant, it may be more advantageous to both parties if the vehicle is returned to the owner’s possession following payment of the bill to that point in time. If the bill cannot be satisfied it is always best to provide us as much advance notice and we will work with you in every reasonable way possible and document the changes. If no previous written agreement is made then the following policy will be enforced by FantomWorks. Customers have 10 calendar days to satisfy an open invoice provided by FantomWorks. Notification will be by either US Mail or Email whichever is the primary communication with the customer prior to that point. After 5 business days FantomWorks will apply a $15.00 per day storage charge for any invoice not paid in full retroactive to the date the bill was due. After 30 calendar days, the storage fee may be adjusted (at the sole discretion of FantomWorks) to the legal limit allowed by the state of Virginia.
It is never our intent to either charge storage or enforce a “Mechanic’s Lien” however we cannot afford to carry customer’s debt or store vehicles we are not working on when we need the stalls for active projects. We will work with everyone in every reasonable way possible provided the customer makes reasonable efforts to both communicate and pay.
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15. Will I get reports on progress?
Yes, we will give you a walk-around progress of your vehicle as you have time and generally prefer about 2 visits per month. We will additionally provide updates via email and will provide a monthly report of your vehicle’s status.
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16. Will your employees be the only people touching my vehicle?
Other than machine work on your engine and installation of your exhaust system we will complete all of the work on your vehicle within our shop. We also take care of the transportation of your vehicle for any movement outside of our shop. What this means is that you will never have to worry about anyone pointing the finger at anyone else concerning your vehicle. We complete all the work and will take complete responsibility for the restoration.
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17. If I bought a car really cheap, then it should be cheap to restore, right?
No, in fact, this is almost always opposite of the truth. Vehicles are generally sold cheaply for one of two reasons. Either the vehicle is very unpopular or the vehicle is in very poor shape. Both of those conditions result in more expensive repairs. If your vehicle is a traditionally “unpopular” or non mainstream vehicle then restoration and repair parts are much harder to find and are generally more expensive. As an example, it would be more expensive to restore a 1976 AMC Pacer than a 65 Mustang Fastback.
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18. I’ve found body shops at $44/hour, how can DRS claim $75.00 is affordable?
Body shops operate under what is typically referred to as a 2:1 rule. They estimate the hours to paint your vehicle based on a set of look-up tables. Any good body man can fix your vehicle in ½ to 1/3 rd the number of hours quoted on your estimate. If a body shop estimates your vehicle’s body work at 50 hours, they will most likely be able to do the work in about 25 hours (but they will still charge you for the 50 hours); the result is that even thought their “posted” rates are less, their “effective” rate is about double our rates. We estimate your vehicle based upon realistic estimates not the industry “look-up” tables. If we work 25 hours on your vehicle you pay for 25 hours of work, never for 50 hours like the rest of the industry. We also provide more than just mechanic or body work into that rate as well. If your car needs parts we also have a person whos only job is to find the required parts needed for the job. That rate also includes their services which is normally extra at most other shops.
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19. What happens to the parts removed or replaced from my vehicle?
Every part removed from your vehicle that is economically repairable will be reconditioned and re-installed. If the part is too expensive to repair, we will replace the item. Your original part will be returned to you; we do not keep any parts from your vehicle. If you have a core that needs to be turned in, we offer you the opportunity to get your core back and not turn it in for core credit.
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20. What protection do I have that all of my original parts will be returned on my vehicle?
We only include this question because we know of shops that have a reputation for taking original parts from a vehicle and replacing them with aftermarket cheaper parts. We will never remove a part without letting you know. It will be returned to you if we determine it should not be re-installed. We photograph all parts of a vehicle in extreme detail before disassembly so we can show you the condition of all parts when your vehicle arrived. We will absolutely never knowingly substitute any part of your vehicle.
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21. Will you come out and examine my vehicle before I bring it in?
It is reasonable to expect that before you commit to a project, you could get some idea of what the project will require – cost and schedule – for the desired performance.
Customer Appointment: We will ask you to come into the shop to discuss the restoration process which demonstrates a legitimate interest in getting your vehicle refinished. If you are interested in going forward with the restoration after your visit, I will personally come out and go over your car in detail.
Because of the large number of requests for this service, the costs, and extensive time involved in driving out to vehicles and going through them off-site, we do not perform off-site estimates.
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22. Can you pick up my vehicle (it is in parts and towing companies will not do it)?
Yes, within reason the pick up of your vehicle follows the rules listed above. If your vehicle requires extensive work because of condition, distribution or distance a fee will be negotiated in advance.
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23. Can you give me a quote?
Yes we can, but as a customer it will always cost you more to get a quote than an estimate. In order to give you a quote, we have to anticpate everything that could go wrong and bill you for that scenario. The probablility is that NOT everything will go wrong, so with the quote, you will pay more than with an estimate. There is a great variability in the work when dealing with antique cars. Because a “Quote” implies a firm fixed price and that requires a complete understanding of all required work, we will not commit to a quote for restorations or major repairs. The scenarios we can offer a quote would be for some basic maintenance requirements of antique cars, general maintenance services, or simple repairs but again, your repairs will always cost more if you insist on a quote.
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24. How much does it cost to fix my electrical problems or rewire my vehicle?
The nature of electrical problems are intensely variable. When we’re asked a question like: How much does it cost to completely fix all my electrical problems or better yet replace my electrical harness? Even upon inspection there’s no way to giveacompletely accurate estimate. In one case, a man brought us a classic Bentley with massive electrical issues following a vehicle fire. He had received estimates from other shops ranging up to about $10,000.00. We were able to find all the problems and fix all of his electrical issues for about $500.00. In another case, a customer brought us a classic Impala with some wiring issues that originally looked simple, when we dug into the harness, we found it had been badly cut apart by a stereo/alarm installer and we were forced to remove and replace the entire harness. Along with the harness replacement, we had to repair a number of systems (instrument lights, gauges, wiper motor) which had a failed so any estimate based upon fixing a few systems would have been badly erroneous. Without an inspection of the vehicle, harness, and the devices to be connected (stereo, lights, alarm, wipers, etc…) along with a fairly involved question/answer session to discuss your expectations, there’s no way to get an accurate idea. We would need to ask the below questions to get an idea without seeing your car or truck and then we still could only get an extremely vague notion. If we guess too high, customers get upset and tell people we’re too expensive even though it was just an estimate; if we guess too low and the final repairs come in higher, customers get upset then too. The fact is that there’s no way to give an accurate guess and a bad guess gets customers upset.
Questions would include:
- Are you expecting us to get your vehicle running after the wiring work is completed?
- Did the vehicle run before the wiring work was done?
- Did the alternator charge before the wiring work started?
- Was there any parasite draw before wiring work began?
- Do you want us to fix all the things we find wrong besides the wiring?
- Do you want the OEM parts (date coded alternator, generator, voltage regulator) repaired or do you want us to replace them?
- Do you want us to fix all the things we find wrong besides the wiring?
- What’s wrong with the original harness and why are you removing/repairing it?
- Did every light work before? Are you expecting us to get the lights working?
- What if the lights were the problem and not the wiring harness; do you want us to fix the lights?
- Same question as above for (starter, alternator, gauges, distributor, sensor switches, windows, turn signals, door locks, stereo, power antenna, many others, etc…)
- Did every light work before? Are you expecting us to get the lights working?
- Is the interior in the vehicle (the interior must be removed or at least moved to facilitate some wiring)?
- Is there any damage to your vehicle that would preclude us from wiring it as OEM?
- Do you want the harness to look like the OEM?
- Do you care about wiring color mismatches (in a generic wiring harness compared to the OEM)?
- Is it ok if we have to wire the harness into a different ignition switch? Can we buy the new switch?
- Do you want to use a correct harness or a generic unterminated end harness?
There’s many many more questions than this and in many cases, the answers to the questions can generate additional questions. So, please understand that the only way to even get a vague idea of the job involved is after a thorough physical inspection of the vehicle along with a question/answer session done first hand.
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25. How much does it cost to do an engine swap?
Engine swaps are generally divided into three categories:
1. Same Size/Type/Era:Removal of your engine and replacement with your engine rebuilt or a like exchange with an engine of the same specification (Size, type and transmission interface) as the one we remove. Example, we remove a carbureted Ford 289 and replace with a different carbureted Ford 289 or Ford 302. Critical in this type of exchange is that the replacement engine should be of the same era and of somewhat similar power. A carbureted 350 Chevrolet engine pulled out of a 1968 Camaro cannot be replaced with a tuned port injected 350 engine from a late model Corvette in this type of engine swap.
Cost category: This is the lowest cost swap. We reuse the transmission, drive shaft, engine mounts, most or all of the motor accessories (alternator, pulleys, etc) and replacing the motor mounts and transmission mounts requires only a bolt on exchange.
Costs include:
- Motor: up to the customer what is spent here (we will provide unwarranted used salvage motor or a crate, warranted, remanufactured motor, or you can provide your own motor).
- Installation: typically ranges from about $500.00 to about $2,000 depending upon re-use of parts
- Consumables: Oil, plugs, wires, carburetor, distributor, motor mounts, trans mount, etc… usually about $500
2. Same Era and type; New Size: Removal of your engine and replacement with a same /similar period motor of the same type (both engines are carbureted). Example, a 1957 Bel Air with a carbureted 283 is swapped out with a mid 1970s stroked 454. Because both engines are carbureted using about 6psi fuel pressure the fuel systems are compatable and a 454 will “bolt up” to the same transmission that the 1957 Bel Air bolted up to.
Cost category: This is the mid grade cost swap. We reuse the transmission if it interfaces AND can handle the power of the new engine. The balance of the parts are reused on a case by case basis including the driveshaft (if possible) provided the transmission doesn’t mandate drive shaft change, frame mounts (if possible), any of the motor accessories (alternator, pulleys, etc) that are compatible and re-weld the motor mounts and transmission mounts (if required). This type of swap virtually always requires a new distributor, carburetor, intake, starter, exhaust system (headers or manifold and pipe and mufflers), as well as all of the peripheral items (plugs, wires, air cleaner, etc…) Additional modifications can involve modifications to the cooling system, steering, and suspension.
Costs include:
- Motor: up to the customer what is spent here
- Installation: ranges from about $2000.00 to about $5,000 depending upon re-use of parts
- Consumables: Oil, plugs, wires, carburetor, distributor, motor mounts, trans mount, etc…
3. New Size/Type/Era: This is the removal of your 1950s or 1960s era carbureted engine and replaces it with a late model computer controlled, fuel injected, roller cam, hardened valve seat, aluminium head motor. This is many times referred to as a “Resto Mod. “ Advantages to this type of engine swap is that it brings the best of today’s motors (fuel efficiency, reliability, power) into yesterday’s more classic vehicles.
Cost category: This is the highest cost engine swap. We generally have to replace everything the engine interfaces. It requires SIGNIFICANT modifications including (but not limited to) fuel system pressures and pumps, fuel system wiring, gauge interfaces, transmission interfaces, engine wiring upgrades, Computer (PCM/ECM) interfaces, intake integration, motor mount/engine mount welding, modifications to the inside of the engine compartment including cutting the firewall, cradle, steering and suspension modifications, etc. Additional modifications will generally involve modifications to the cooling system, steering, suspension and every electrical component in the engine compartment.
Costs include:
- Motor: generally it is better to get a full donor vehicle. The purchase of a GM Crate motor would be missing so many components it would not be the most cost effective start point.
- Installation: ranges from about $5000.00 on up depending upon interfaces we exchange. This type of exchange can easily grow to an engine/ fuel system/ cooling system/ transmission/ cradle/ suspension/ differential/ gauge/ electrical system exchange (sometimes even more).
- Consumables: Oil, plugs, wires, carburetor, distributor, motor mounts, trans mount, etc…
